I’ve Looked at Crowds From Both Sides Now

Posted on August 7, 2009

This post was written by Carl Frappaolo

janusThanks to the generosity of Randy Corke of Chaordix, this Wednesday I had the opportunity to go to a meeting of the Ad Club. The Ad Club is the trade organization for marketing, advertising and communications in New England. A different crowd for me. So why was I invited?  Why did I go?  The topic was crowd sourcing – an Enterprise 2.0 subject near and dear to me. The speakers were Edward Boches and John Winsor.

The event was most interesting, mainly because it allowed me to see Enterprise 2.0 from a different perspective – that of the advertising professional (e.g. copy writer, illustrator, designer, layout artists, creative director, etc.).

I was a bit surprised by the tone. Crowd sourcing, as well as bogs and wikis were positioned as threatening. Without bothering to really understand the technology, multiple case studies were referenced that showed how copy could be written, creative ideas developed – through”crowd sourcing” – thus putting many “creative people” out of work.  “Threatening, scary, but powerful and a reality – deal with it.”

Of course there is some truth to what was being said. But in the lack of technology appreciation, there was far too much credit being given to technology and its ability to be the total demise of the marketing profession. I wanted so badly to remind this “crowd” that sometimes the crowd is wrong. Sometimes it leads to mob rule – remember the LA riots and lynch mobs. Heck the “crowd” elected George W Bush – twice.

Too many in this crowd – as do some Enterprise 2.0 purists – believed that Enterprise 2.0 must be implemented as a far reaching, open and transparent. Wrong. As some pointed out there could be great value in specifically developing and managing a “crowd” and containing sourcing within its boundaries.  Sure two heads are better than one, but if you had a tumor growing on your brain would you rather have one qualified oncologist diagnose it, or crowd source it to the general masses?

I wondered why the use of crowd sourcing technology was viewed as radically different from opinion polls and focus groups. Do not get me wrong, I understand and appreciate the difference (speed of execution and scope/reach), but believe it is still a tool most valuable when managed in the hands of a creative team. More time could have been spent looking at how the technology enhances the role of many in marketing and advertising. Roles such as “directors of community” were mentioned but not examined or clearly defined. Terms like ” benevolent dictator” were introduced but not fully explored.

More shockingly, the protection of intellectual property was merely glossed over.  One speaker even suggested that authors and artists might crowd source the authoring of an agreement/contract to protect their own intellectual property. At this point, I thought to myself, “I sure hope you have some folks with legal expertise in that crowd.”  I also found it ironic that John Winsor was talking about using crowd sourcing to a small degree in the development of his soon to be published book. I got the impression that he was not paying many of those that contributed in this manner, and certainly he did not develop it in a wiki – with transparent availability to the community/crowd. Oh no, this book will be published the old fashioned way, with its copyright protected and made available for a fee at the online or brick-and-mortar bookstore of your choice – rendering royalties to it author.  (Do as I say, not as I do.)

Ironically, the voice of reason came from Randy Corke who, although peddling technology, often explained how there was more to the “solution” than just technology, and that a great deal of creativity in implementation and execution (i.e.management and design) are necessary.

I am not sure everyone came away with a clear understanding of Enterprise 2.0 technology and crowd sourcing, and how best to leverage and manage them. For too many in this crowd, teh focus seemed to be on  too many seemed to focus on replacing personnel, rather than the introduction of new tools and models.  Heck some of the features in technology from products, such as those from Choradix, are the answers to some of the concerns/questions the crowd raised. There is such a dire need for education and learning among many crowds in order for Enterprise 2.0 to by effectively leveraged.

As I walked away I was humming the Joni Mitchel Song, “Both Sides Now“, taking liberty with the lyrics as they ran through my head, “I’ve looked at crowds from both sides now, from win and lose and still somehow, its crowds illusions I recall – I really dont know crowds at all.”

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  • staffing1
    Oh. I get it now. Feel like an idiot.
    www.staffingpower.com
  • BobJ
    previous post was corrupted a bit...i repost and correct here...

    "i read the article, and i still wonder if ANYONE really has a good clue as to what 'Web 2.0' really "is" -- or is it just an amorphous term used to group technologies and systems dependent upon the "minimalist" approach to privacy (e.g. facebook, twitter, blogs, etc.) on the internet (and in general) these days, and the techniques used to exploit them? and this 'crowd' approach to 'authoriing' and so on, well...oi! it seems to me we've come to point where we need to re-think a lot of how we look at and do certain things these days...or am i just being too cynical and old fashioned?
  • BobJ
    i read the article, and i still wonder if ANYONE really has a good clue as to what 'Web 2.0' really "is" -- or is it just an amorphous term used to group technologies and systems dependent upon the "minimalist" approach to privacy (e.g. facebook, twitter, blogs, etc.) on the internet (and in general) these days, and the techniques used to exploit ... Read Morethem? and this 'crowd' approach to 'authoriing' and so on, well...oi! it seems to me we've come to point where we need to re-think a lot of how we look at and do certain things these days...or am i just being too cynical and old fashioned?
  • Rick Ladd
    Dan - Thanks for pointing me here, nepotistic as it may seem :) The kind of response to new ideas Carl has characterized here is an everyday occurrence at my stodgy old aerospace company, though there are glimmers of hope, as we discussed. I'm especially fond of your point about Marketing and Sales being important internally as well. Good stuff!
  • Bob Leonard
    Oh. I get it now. Feel like an idiot.
  • The world has changed. They have to learn a new way of earning a living. Especially in B2B, the old, interruptive model no longer works. Content marketing has been around a long time (most recognizable example is airline magazines), and has really come into its own over the past few years. It isn't easy. It isn't sexy. It's hard work. And results are readily measurable. Kind of takes all the fun out of being in advertising. Unless you enjoy creating useful and relevant content that people read because they want to.
  • Bob - great points, thanks for contributing. Completely agree - it may not be "easy" but it's certainly more rewarding and justifiable in this day and age to be able to explicitly point to how efforts have or have not contributed to the business. Still have a long way to go in awakening the "old school" to this new reality, but true fundamentals of content marketing haven't changed over the years - it's just gotten that much faster, interactive, and measurable. For the capable marketer - "that's a good thing" right?
  • Dan - Is it you who's in Napa reading 'I've Looked at Clouds from Both Sides Now'? Or is it Carl? I ask because I'm in Sonoma.
  • Bob - Woozio (the traffic widget you're seeing) isn't always accurate on location, likely it's mistaking Napa for Sonoma. Good catch though. Interesting to see who's stopping by, eh?
  • Dan - Yes. It is a good thing. It's the holy grail. Being able to test headlines, graphics, offers, etc. rapidly and cheaply online would have been a dream come true for David Ogilvy. Darren Stevens may have pulled winning slogans out of thin air, but real marketers (like Ogilvy) know that it takes a ton of research, exemplary writing skills (clear and concise), and testing, testing, testing until you find the most effective combination.
  • Bob - Interesting, have been re-reading Ogilvy, John Caple and Claude Hopkins recently - seems we're of like minds. Marketing and sales applies just as much to internal work as it does to the consumer-facing public - and I work to help both sides of the coin to see where these skills can and NEED to be applied in many situations.
  • Bob Leonard
    This is a disconnect with the Ogilvy content, but I am reacting to the 'like-mindedness'. Found your blog because I'm focusing more and more on info mgmt - see massive opportunity with the explosive growth of unstructured content AND concurrent need for control catalyzed by increasing regulations.
  • RT @tweetmeme I’ve Looked at Crowds From Both Sides Now | Information Architected http://bit.ly/SnXIw


    This comment was originally posted on Twitter

  • Carl, I look forward to meeting. I have the blog feeding into LinkedIn and just saw Dan's pic, made the assumption when I clicked over...
  • @telwin Thx for comment on http://bit.ly/2R2p1E

    - post was by Carl, FWIW ;)


    This comment was originally posted on Twitter

  • Hii im john and http://bit.ly/2R2p1E this stie helpful for us. Thanks
  • Toby - Carl posted this entry, but thanks for stopping by. We should catch up again soon. Definite synergy in our overlapping careers and skills.

    Dan
  • The fear on old-guard business is like the smell of a rotting corpse. It is incredible how much the Internet has rocked the 4 Ps of marketing let alone the speed of thought.

    Good post Dan, thanks for the insights.

    Toby Elwin

    @telwin
  • I Really Don’t Know Crowds At All - blog commentary on recent ad club crowd sourcing event http://bit.ly/14tbXp


    This comment was originally posted on Twitter

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